Posts by Double Edge

10

Mistakes made when dialoguing with Atheists

by gumby in

well, to be fair, an atheist can no more prove there is no god than he can prove that there isn't an ice-cream factory on jupiter.

in fact, it isn't even a good request.

it doesn't mean you are wrong.

Double Edge

I enjoyed reading this article....thanks for the post.

22

My story: pieces of me

by Mimilly in

i've lurked here for some time now, and posted a few times but wasn't going to do this until a couple other sweet members here suggested i do - so here it goes.

to tell my story, i have to go back to the beginning.. when i was 3yrs old, i had a very loving older brother, craig, who was 5yrs old.

while we were out playing on a montreal street one day, a streetcleaner with a hungover driver hooked my brother, dragged him several feet, and ran over him, in front of me.

I thought I was having a really bad day until I read your story....now it seems like piffel. Thank God the past is just that ... past. We all have 'things' to go through in getting thru life, but it sounds like your measure was a few extra heaps. I'm glad you came to this board - your life experiences will add a great perspective and people can learn alot from what you have to say.

WELCOME..... (now I'll go and count my blessings instead of grumbling on what a crappy day it WAS).

46

Proof of the "historical" Jesus...

by simwitness in

been wondering about this lately.... what proof (outside the bible, of course) do we have for the "historical jesus"?.

in my earlier days (post jw to "born again christian") i remember reading that the one thing that differentiates christianity vs. "all the others" was that we had secular historical proof that there was a man that was called jesus, who died on a cross and was resurrected.

now i am wondering just what that proof is/was?

Double Edge

MORE FULFILLED PROPHECY

Prophecy from Isaiah - Trees again would grow in Israel

Somewhere around 701-681 BC, Isaiah talks of a future restoration of Israel which coincides with an occurrence in modern Israel - the construction of a vast irrigation system to improve farming. The lack of available water, including rain, is one reason why Israel had been a desolate, unproductive land during much of the past 2000 years. But, during the 1900s, when many Jews returned to their ancient homeland, they built a network of irrigation systems. And during the past century, more than 200 million trees have been planted in Israel.

Here is Isaiah 41:18-20 I will make rivers flow on barren heights, and springs within the valleys. I will turn the desert into pools of water, and the parched ground into springs. I will put in the desert the cedar and the acacia, the myrtle and the olive. I will set pines in the wasteland, the fir and the cypress together, so that people may see and know, may consider and understand, that the hand of the Lord has done this, that the Holy One of Israel has created it.

36

First Post

by Decimus in

jw
friends

hi everyone.while i have lurked on this board for some time this is my very first post.

the main reason for my reluctance to post has been the fact that my job keeps me pretty busy - however i have enjoyed the board so much i felt i would love to be a more tangible presence and have decided to take the plunge.

i will give more details of my background later.

Double Edge

Welcome ..... sounds like we're going to have some interesting stories/comments from you.... take your shoes off and stay awhile!

46

Proof of the "historical" Jesus...

by simwitness in

been wondering about this lately.... what proof (outside the bible, of course) do we have for the "historical jesus"?.

in my earlier days (post jw to "born again christian") i remember reading that the one thing that differentiates christianity vs. "all the others" was that we had secular historical proof that there was a man that was called jesus, who died on a cross and was resurrected.

now i am wondering just what that proof is/was?

Double Edge

Can you point to any prophecies 'the Bible' made that can be verified to have come true somewhere outside the very same book that made them

First of all, the Bible isn't a "book", rather a collection of "books" that cover hundreds and hundreds of years. So any prophecies made in one "book" and verified by another would answer your question. Also, note that these biblical prophecies ARE verified by outside history books.

predicting the LACK of an event is a non-event

Lame... you need to re-read the post... it DOES predict the destruction of a powerful society and names the destroyer.

the prophets of Israel uttered their predictions over 2500 years ago, long before anyone dreamed that such total destruction was possible.
Which is the most complete joke of them all. Have you seen representations of ancient cities? Wouldn't take much to tear them down at all - they were MUCH smaller than modern cities and built out of MUCH weaker material (sorry, no steal invented yet - stones topple easily once you are on the inside). Cities of the time were regularly destroyed and never rebuilt.

REALLY LAME. Now you're looking at history with the 'wisdom' of 20/20 hindsight. To the prophets of those days, those capitols of power and might WERE indestructable....I'm sure they were ridiculed in their day for making such outlandish predictions as to the utter destruction of those magnificant cities (built with the finest material at that time).

46

Proof of the "historical" Jesus...

by simwitness in

been wondering about this lately.... what proof (outside the bible, of course) do we have for the "historical jesus"?.

in my earlier days (post jw to "born again christian") i remember reading that the one thing that differentiates christianity vs. "all the others" was that we had secular historical proof that there was a man that was called jesus, who died on a cross and was resurrected.

now i am wondering just what that proof is/was?

Double Edge

The following is obviously from a reference, but it's a starting point:

OLD TESTAMENT PROPHECIES

Prophecy Concerning Babylon

In the days of the prophets of Israel (850-560 BC approximately) two great military powers arose in the territory around the Euphrates and the Tigris rivers, now known as Iraq. The earlier was the Empire of Assyria, with Nineveh as its capital. During two centuries the Assyrians carried out invasions of the territory of surrounding nations: southwards they dominated the Chaldeans and their capital, Babylon; eastwards they overran Syria, then advanced down the Mediterranean coast, through Israel as far as Egypt. Their policy was one of terror. Their aim was to terrorise local populations into submitting and paying an annual tribute. To this end they sacked and burnt towns, devastated the countryside, massacred the inhabitants and took thousands away captive to Assyria.

The second half of the 7th century BC saw the decline of Assyrian power and the rise of the Babylonian. In 612 BC Nineveh was conquered. Nebuchadnezzar, king of the Chaldeans, rapidly created the new empire. The smaller nations of the Middle East, rejoicing over their deliverance from Assyria, soon found themselves overrun by the armies of Babylon. In particular Nebuchadnezzar overran Israel, sacked Jerusalem and burnt its temple, and carried thousands away captive to Babylon. He then went further south and invaded Egypt. The Babylonian Empire was the second phase of this military domination arising from the area of the Euphrates.

In particular, Nebuchadnezzar, its greatest king, made the city of Babylon a marvel in the world of the Near East. He built enormous temples and palaces, and surrounded the city with an immense protective wall. Babylon became the glory and pride both of Nebuchadnezzar himself and his Chaldean people.

It is difficult for us in these days to realise the impact of such ruthless power and extravagant wealth upon the inhabitants of the smaller nations. To them the empires of Assyria and Babylon must have seemed terrifying and invincible.

Utterly Overthrown

Yet l00 years before Babylon reached the height of its power, Isaiah the prophet foretold its overthrow in very specific terms. In a chapter headed "The burden of Babylon", this is what he said

. . . The day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty . . . Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them . . . And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldeans` pride, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. It shall never be inhabited . . . neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there, neither shall shepherds make their flocks to lie down there. But wild beasts of the deserts shall lie there. (Isaiah 13:6, l7, 19-21)

The fate of Babylon is clear; the attackers are to be the Medes (a nation to the east of Babylon) ; the city is to become a desolation, inhabited by neither man nor beast. And let us remind ourselves that this clear prophecy was uttered 100 years before Babylon arose to the height of its power and glory.

Another prophet, Jeremiah, writing 100 years later, when Nebuchadnezzar was about to attack Jerusalem, added to the forecasts of Babylon's downfall:

Behold, I will raise up against Babylon a destroying wind . . . Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed . . . Prepare against (Babylon) the nations, with the kings of the Medes . . . Babylon shall become heaps (ruins), a dwellingplace for jackals, an astonishment and an hissing, without inhabitant . . . The broad walls of Babylon shall be utterly overthrown, and her high gates shall be burned with fire . . . O Lord, thou hast spoken against this place to cut it off, that none shall dwell therein, neither man nor beast, but it shall be desolate for ever . . .

And finally the prophet is commanded to bind a stone to the roll of the prophecy and to throw it into the river Euphrates, declaring, Thus shall Babylon sink, and shall not rise again . . . (Jeremiah 51:1,8,28,37,58,62-64).

The agreement between the prophecies of Isaiah, written 100 years before Babylon arose to power, and of Jeremiah, written when the empire and city were at the height of their glory, is complete. To the people of those days it must have sounded as it would to us if it were prophesied that a great city like London, New York or Sydney was to be destroyed and to remain a desolation for ever. In this age of nuclear weapons such a fate would not be inconceivable; but the prophets of Israel uttered their predictions over 2500 years ago, long before anyone dreamed that such total destruction was possible.

History reveals how the prophecies about the fate of Babylon were progressively fulfilled. The first despoilers were the Medes and the Persians in the 6th century BC From that time the glory of Babylon began to fade. Then came the Greeks under Alexander the Great, then the Romans; after them various warlike tribes like the Parthians, the Arabs and the Tartars. For centuries the actual site of the ancient city of Babylon was a heap of ruins, shunned - so travellers tell us - by wandering nomads. It was not until the archaeologists began to explore the site in the first half of the 19th century that the ruins of the great walls, the mighty temples and gates, and the immense statues revealed to an astonished world how magnificent ancient Babylon must have appeared in its day.

8

Church of Nativity Burns, No Christian Outcry?

by Valis in

jw
friends

well, now that yasser has left, there's fires burning around the church of the nativity.

one question i have is, where is the outcry from all those that believe jesus was born there and it is indeed a holy site?

i would think they would be up in arms...some literally.

Double Edge

I don't think there is an outcry because most Christians view the site as the 'genuine' birthplace with a grain of salt.... A few of the 'holy' sites in Jerusalem are suspect as 'genuine', therefore it really doesn't mean that much - It's not like the Rock of the Dome which is saced to a Muslim...where the Prophet Mohammed supposedly ascended to heaven IMHO.

46

Proof of the "historical" Jesus...

by simwitness in

been wondering about this lately.... what proof (outside the bible, of course) do we have for the "historical jesus"?.

in my earlier days (post jw to "born again christian") i remember reading that the one thing that differentiates christianity vs. "all the others" was that we had secular historical proof that there was a man that was called jesus, who died on a cross and was resurrected.

now i am wondering just what that proof is/was?

Double Edge

Valis:

Double, and the question is pointed back in your direction. Which ones have come true? Perhaps there is the answer to your question

I asked the question first...which prophesies did not come true? An absolute statement was made that NONE have come true. As far as prophesies that have come true, where do I begin? Shall we start with the Old Testament?

12

A heavenly hope

by Dawn in

jw
friends

i have read a number of posts in the past few weeks from people who felt they had a heavenly hope and struggled with the issue "how do i handle the memorial" or "what will my friends think".. this interests me because i struggled with quite the opposite.

i always believed i was of the earthly class and that is where my hope always was.. when i started going to a new church last year and hearing about a heavenly hope i really struggled with this.

i couldn't imagine myself going to heaven - even if for a short time until the earth is made new.

Double Edge

SexKitten:

I enjoy your comments, but I do have a question....why do you always spell GOD ... G*D? (Just curious)

12

A heavenly hope

by Dawn in

jw
friends

i have read a number of posts in the past few weeks from people who felt they had a heavenly hope and struggled with the issue "how do i handle the memorial" or "what will my friends think".. this interests me because i struggled with quite the opposite.

i always believed i was of the earthly class and that is where my hope always was.. when i started going to a new church last year and hearing about a heavenly hope i really struggled with this.

i couldn't imagine myself going to heaven - even if for a short time until the earth is made new.

Double Edge

there are some christains who believe that after the second coming, heaven will be here on earth, in other words, those who are resurrected (from heaven) will be living on earth, since God will set up his Kingdom here.